[PDB-gov] Voting eligibility
Dave Temkin
dave at temk.in
Wed Nov 18 12:03:24 PST 2015
One org, one person, one vote, not one person one vote.
Otherwise the voting pool can be flooded with disinterested parties. We shouldn't care WHO votes from an org, so long as that interested org only has a single vote. This is how the IXes (and ARIN) do it and it works quite well.
On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 12:00 PM -0800, "Chris Malayter" <mustang at peeringdb.com> wrote:
Agree on the one person/one vote.
> On Nov 18, 2015, at 2:53 PM, Daniel Golding wrote:
>
> I'm with Steve here. I don't like that involved individuals don't get a voice. But changing the rules in the middle of an election is worse.
>
> Also, to ponder - if the rule is to keep only one person per org to have a vote, what's to keep multiples from an org from voting as individuals? Also, did we anticipate the case where people get multiple votes because they are multiple orgs?
>
> After this election, I think we should strong consider one person/one vote. Otherwise, its just a mess.
>
> Dan
>
> On Monday, November 16, 2015, Steve Feldman wrote:
> After reviewing the bylaws, I agree with this view.
>
> Sections 2.2 and 2.3 are unambiguously clear that only business entities may be members, and only representatives of members are entitled to cast votes.
>
> While I think we can agree that this leads to a regrettable effect in this case, it's too late to change the rules for this election. Doing so could easily give the appearance of impropriety.
>
> The incoming board has the authority and ought to address this and a few other issues I see in the bylaws (especially clarifying the affiliation rules) well in advance of the next election.
>
> Steve
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 6:11 AM, Dave Temkin wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 8:38 PM, Matt Griswold wrote:
> * Chris Phillips [151115 17:20 -0800]:
> > Begs the question, what defines a highly-active member? And of which
> > community, peering in general or within PeeringDB itself?
> Right, which is why we axed giving admins special membership to begin
> with.
>
> In this case, I believe he was referring to the PeeringDB community,
> since Florian does support tickets and helps out a lot.
>
>
> I don't like the way this feels. Think about it in this context:
>
> I have two votes today - for FL-IX and Netflix. Does this mean I should have 3 votes, an additional one for the fact that I'm a PDB admin?
>
> I don't think you're silencing someone by not giving them a vote; I think you're cementing legitimacy in the election by sticking to a documented process and procedure. This (hopefully) isn't a popularity contest - it's a real election for a real asset with real responsibilities.
>
> The bylaws are clear- membership is proscribed to an organization (the use of the word "may" there is the opposite of "may not" and is inclusive), with an individual representative of that organization.
>
> I'm in favor of being an inclusive organization, and Florian absolutely deserves a vote - whether it's his own through an organization, or proxied through another. This is something that needs to be fixed before the next election (to be clearer).
>
> Regards,
> -Dave
>
>
>
> >
> > On 11/15/2015 3:28 PM, Chris Malayter wrote:
> > > I agree with Matt. There’s no reason to silence a highly active
> > > member of the community.
> > >
> > > -Chris
> > >
> > >> On Nov 15, 2015, at 6:21 PM, Matt Griswold wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I read it as (and did when we were making it) a corporation may be
> > >> a member in addition to an individual. Not a huge deal and I
> > >> agree that we shouldn't change any language now, but thought it
> > >> should be brought up for future board consideration.
> > >>
> > >> In cases like this, where Florian isn't currently at an
> > >> organization yet retains his account because he's an admin and
> > >> does tickets, I think he should still have a voice in any
> > >> election.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> * Chris Caputo [151115 18:04 +0000]:
> > >>> Keeping in mind article 2 of:
> > >>>
> > >>> https://www.caputo.com/pdb/20151112_PeeringDB_DRAFT_Bylaws.pdf
> > >>>
> > >>> The intention as written is that there is one class of members and
> > >>> that class consists of organizations, each with a single vote.
> > >>>
> > >>> - 2.2 Qualifications for Membership.
> > >>> - A corporation, limited liability company, partnership or
> > >>> other legal business entity may be a Member of the Corporation.
> > >>> Membership is determined by having both an active PeeringDB.com
> > >>> account and an individual representative or role subscription to
> > >>> the PeeringDB Governance mailing list:
> > >>>
> > >>> http://lists.peeringdb.com/cgibin/mailman/listinfo/pdbgov
> > >>>
> > >>> - Members may have such other qualifications as the Board may
> > >>> prescribe by amendment to these Bylaws.
> > >>>
> > >>> So the first part of 2.2 says what "may" be a member, and then
> > >>> says that from that pool of possible members, that both an
> > >>> active PeeringDB.com account is needed, along with there being a
> > >>> representative (individual or role) subscription to this pdb-gov
> > >>> list.
> > >>>
> > >>> Implicit by the first sentence is that "active PeeringDB.com
> > >>> account" in the second sentence refers to organizational, not
> > >>> individual, PeeringDB.com accounts.
> > >>>
> > >>> I don't believe it would be wise to revise the draft documents
> > >>> during the present election, but once the election is over, the
> > >>> initial board (or subsequent board or member meeting) may want
> > >>> to clarify that second sentence by inserting the word
> > >>> "organizational" between "active" and "PeeringDB.com account",
> > >>> but first I'd be curious to know if that was the source of
> > >>> confusion.
> > >>>
> > >>> Did you or Matt think that a person with an individual PeeringDB
> > >>> account, subscribed to this pdb-gov list, would be sufficient to
> > >>> qualify for membership, based on that second sentence of 2.2?
> > >>>
> > >>> In addition to, or instead of, the clarification idea above, a
> > >>> future board or member meeting could certainly revise the
> > >>> definition of membership to be more inclusive, such as by
> > >>> creating a category of membership eligibility for active
> > >>> PeeringDB admins.
> > >>>
> > >>> Chris
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sun, 15 Nov 2015, Florian Hibler wrote:
> > >>>> Good morning pdb-gov,
> > >>>> after my attempt to register for voting on the PDB board
> > >>>> yesterday, I figured out, that I am (according to the bylaws,
> > >>>> as Chris told me), not eligible to vote, as I am not
> > >>>> representing an org with a PeeringDB entry at the moment.
> > >>>> Nethertheless I am actively involved into PDB and according to
> > >>>> Matt Griswold I should be entitled to vote.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The paragraph which excludes me from voting is according to Chris
> > >>>> the following in the bylaws
> > >>>> (https://www.caputo.com/pdb/20151112_PeeringDB_DRAFT_Bylaws.pdf):
> > >>>>
> > >>>> 2.2 Qualifications for Membership:
> > >>>> "A corporation, limited liability company, partnership or other
> > >>>> legal business entity may be a Member of the Corporation.
> > >>>> Membership is determined by having both an active PeeringDB.com
> > >>>> account and an individual representative or role subscription
> > >>>> to the PeeringDB Governance mailing list:
> > >>>> http://lists.peeringdb.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pdb-gov
> > >>>> Members may have such other qualifications as the Board may
> > >>>> prescribe by amendment to these Bylaws."
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Matt sees it a bit different, so we decided to bring the topic up
> > >>>> here and see what other people think about it. Your input is
> > >>>> highly appreciated and looking very much forward to hear from
> > >>>> you on this topic!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Bests,
> > >>>> Florian
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Florian Hibler
> > >>>> PeeringDB Administrator
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Pdb-gov mailing list
> > >> Pdb-gov at lists.peeringdb.com
> > >> http://lists.peeringdb.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pdb-gov
> > >
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> > >
> > _______________________________________________
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>
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>
> --
> Dan Golding | Network Infrastructure Engineering | dgolding at google.com | +1 202-370-5916
>>
>
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